She sat up before she passed and said to her daughters,” do you see them”? Pamuk is a Turkish diplomat and arrives at Downton Abbey with Evelyn Napier. Theo James, Actor: Divergent. Thomas gets away with this and if discovered would have been fired. 1) How did Pamuk convince Mary she would “still be a virgin”? 2. I’m fairly certain Julian Fellowes was NOT insinuating anal sex with the virginity bit here. Oh, and she almost died in that fire. She immediately got out of bed and covered her (already covered) body as much as possible with her sheets. I’m just wondering if perhaps they didn’t get very far into things before Pamuk croaked and Mary is still a virgin, but the fact that she even had a man in her bed, even just kissing him, was sheer scandal. Questions About Pamuk: Downton Abbey. The Regency Court Gown: Regency Fashion, Men's hair styles at the turn of the 19th century, Pride and Prejudice Economics: Or Why a Single Man with a Fortune of £4,000 Per Year is a Desirable Husband, Twenty Book suggestions with Annotations from the Jane Austen’s World’s Writing Team, Jane Austen and Samuel Johnson’s Dictionary, The Vyne, The Chute Family & The Austens, by Tony Grant. If you would like to share a new site, or point out an error, please email us. Thomas led Pamuk to Mary’s room. Gentle readers: Please feel free to post your comments and continue the conversation! The worst was after she found out the truth of Mr. Pamuk’s death. They won’t say that in the series, because at the time, people were not thinking about it that way. Thus, when he said that to her, it could be due to his planning on only entering her anally. Napier has been invited there to a fox hunt. Remember, if it was torn she could always tell her future husband it was due to horse back riding, maybe thats why in those days women rode side saddle??? :) Then Pamuk’s intentions would be revealed and Thomas would be more the hero…. His corpse is then smuggled back to his room by Lady Mary's mother and a maid. Only two days remain to watch Downton Abbey Season 2 on PBS’s website. I have an extensive collection of cookbooks, including many that were published 100+ years ago as well as many facsimile copies of even older ones. Perhaps readers can help answer these particulars. How is that not rape? Let’s see if I may answer your questions: 1) I am guessing that Lady Mary had enjoyed a “flirtation” with Mr. Pamuk, but was shocked by his sudden appearance in her room and a combination of shock and uncertainty of what to do left her unable to defend herself. © Jane Austen’s World blog, 2010-2021. Nick Briggs / Carnival Films / PBS. Ashley Judd: Actress in African ICU after shattering leg in ... Alex Trebek’s last ‘Jeopardy!’ champ, Brayden Smith, dies ag... Justin Timberlake issues public apology to Britney Spears, J... Meghan Markle court victory against Mail on Sunday came at s... Michelle Pfeiffer turned down Silence of the Lambs over evil... Find out more about our policy and your choices, including how to opt-out. There is only so much the writers can do in an hour… Did he ever come to check this out? I would argue Mary was raped. It has long bothered me that we have had to continuously revisit the Pamuk story line without getting any clarification on these issues. I think Thomas killed Pamuk to keep him from telling anyone about Thomas’ pass at him. a scene of Mary and Matthew in bed where they actually discuss the details. I agree but I don’t think that it would make any difference! Mr Fellowes said that rather than being a work of fiction, the story was inspired by an incident that took place in a great English house around 1890. Mary was hesitant to accept Matthew because she didn’t know her own mind. All he did was convince her not to directly say ‘no’ and raise the alarm. Reader #1 Q1. I think Lady Mary really wanted the encounter- she finds Pamuk so fascinating and handsome and she desires him, so that even though she is shocked at first she gives in very easily. 2)She did not greet him joyously; she told him to go and threatened to scream, and did not when she was convinced that bringing attention to this would ruin her future. It is possible that she feared making love with Matthew would result in his death!!! . It took maybe 2 seconds on screen, but all was clear. The unknown life she might share with Matthew was scary and she wasn’t sure she was willing to take that risk. It would not be hard for Pamuk to convince Mary that she would still be virtuous, because she didn’t know very much about it. I have never understood why that was not further discussed in the series. Because women were inferior to men. Her mother questioned whether that was necessary, but Mary insisted that she had to tell him before she accepted his proposal! She was tempted and she gave in. For me, how Mary handles the Pamuk crisis, gives us an insight into her core values. Pamuk has been around and he knew he did not have to disturb her hymen, for both of them to have pleasure.. Click on this link. Nifty cookbook to add to my collections. The woman was at "her wits' end" and woke up the matron, an older woman who realised that if the story got out, everyone in the house would be tainted by scandal. He goes to her room at night for sex, during which he dies of a heart attack. She did say that she is compelled to not marry each man her family wants for her. 2) It was Thomas who led Pamuk to Mary’s room after trying to kiss him. Did Edith not think, in those days, that it did not only throw a bad light, on Mary, but also their other sister, and their father and mother. Just thought you would like to know that I received today The Unofficial Downton Abbey Cookbook – from Lady Mary’s Crabe Canapés to Mrs. Patmore’s Christmas Pudding – More Than 150 Recipes – from Upstairs and Downstairs by Emily Ansara Baines. I must say I have enjoyed this mini series and have found other sites about what went on in this time,in England. I think by his proposal in Season 2 we are meant to see that she has matured a lot after seeing that there is more to life than parties. In Downton Abbey, did Mary and Pamuk have sex? Mary was not raped. Remember this is the only life she’s ever known. She nodded yes and then grabbed Pamuk and kissed him. hmm. End of. It is curious that no one has commented on why no one asked Lady Mary how Pamuk found her room. If you have a Netflix membership, you can watch Season 1 on streaming video. But to be fair, Downton Abbey has never been kind to Lady Edith. This scene has been on my mind a lot as I would also interpret the what takes place as a rape, very reminiscent of what happens to Uma Thurman in Dangerous Liasons. Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. This blog is a personal blog written and edited by me and my team. My mom said that so many died that there were wagons going around to pick up the deceased and they were quickly burried in large common graves. and again, what really matters is, she said NO, and as I hope everyone is aware, there can be no gray area here, anytime someone who has said no is pressured to have sex that is rape. Season 3 is being filmed as I type. the PBS version was cut, unfortunately, in many small but critical places. We are living in vastly more sophisticated time now and it is possible that Lady Mary had only rudimentary understanding of “sex” together with a well trained “women are subservient to men” indoctrination for that era. Hello, my name is Vic and I live in Maryland, USA. All times AEDT (GMT +11). I realize that modern-day rape definitions don’t apply in 1920, but he indirectly threatened her with ruin if she did not submit. Carson and Mrs. Hughes at the Beach.The Season 4 Christmas special finally acknowledged that the true heart of Downton Abbey is Carson and Mrs. Hughes, and that the show needed to get on making this relationship happen. 1) Well, Mary was obviously attracted to the man, and he was attracted to her, and there was quite a lot of flirting. Downton Abbey began airing on ITV in 2010, the same year the BBC aired a little reality competition called The Great British Bake Off. Do you think Matthew is a virgin? I wish Fellowes would provide an explanation in the next season. Find a book  description and order information on Rachel Dodge’s website. Click to email this to a friend (Opens in new window), Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window), Click to share on Reddit (Opens in new window), Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to share on Pinterest (Opens in new window), Click to share on Tumblr (Opens in new window), Click to share on LinkedIn (Opens in new window), The Art of Beauty: 18th Century Cosmetics, Harris’s List of Covent Garden Ladies: Georgian London, http://www.amazon.com/The-Unofficial-Downton-Abbey-Cookbook/dp/1440538913/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1351028313&sr=8-1&keywords=Downton+Abbey+Cookbook, Follow Jane Austen's World on WordPress.com. I don’t think it was a rape. I rationalized that they must not have had actual sex because she never worries about pregnancy and she says she was not forced. The show has always made a point of depicting her as a … Thomas poisoned pamuk with salt of sorrel from ep one. This also helps to explain how Thomas learns “survival” in his world – it is all about blackmail and taking advantage of situations. I have always thought Thomas put a drug in a drink or something – it’s just too odd for someone of Pamuk’s young age to have died from a heart problem (not impossible obviously, just rare – he’s obviously had other experience with getting his heart racing and done fine). He will be portraying a police officer on … Downton Abbey was a total emotional rollercoaster from start to finish, as fans of the show know all too well. And whomever suggested anal sex has got to be kidding. I have no idea! A NOTE ABOUT RELEVANT ADVERTISING: We collect information about the content (including ads) you use across this site and use it to make both advertising and content more relevant to you on our network and other sites. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Jane Austen’s World with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. I think that he meant that he wouldn’t tell anyone so she would still be a virgin to society and to her future husband. Now Mary had been bored all her life, she was destined to marry the heir, and as she said to Matthew in episode five: “Women like me don’t have a life. So, she couldn’t even scream him off. Ummm, gross. He did NOT mean for Mary to have had anal sex. In the storyline, Kemal Pamuk is a Turkish diplomat who visits Downton Abbey and dies of a heart attack while having sex with the earl's eldest daughter, Lady Mary. I have adored Jane Austen almost all of my life. http://www.amazon.com/The-Unofficial-Downton-Abbey-Cookbook/dp/1440538913/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1351028313&sr=8-1&keywords=Downton+Abbey+Cookbook. Yes, Thomas led Pamuk to Mary’s room. I think that what Pamuk stirred in her might have allowed her view of Matthew to evolve, to see him as another “outsider” who could shake her world – albeit more gently and acceptably. She of all the sisters enjoys her comforts. THE author of a hit TV costume drama says a shocking sex scandal that featured prominently in the first series was based on a real 19th-century incident. Originally published asDownton's deadly sex scandal a real drama. The first series of Downton Abbey comprises 7 episodes, and was broadcast in the UK on 26 September 2010, and explored the lives of the Crawley family and their servants from the day after the sinking of the RMS Titanic in April 1912 to the outbreak of the First World War on 4 August 1914. Find out more about our policy and your choices, including how to opt-out. Topics include Regency fashion, historic foods, Jane Austen societies, British sites, related topics. Post was not sent - check your email addresses! He played Turkish diplomat Kemal Pamuk in an episode of the first season of Downton Abbey. And as I heard it, I thought, one day, this will come in handy.". I think she rejected Matthew because her aunt advised her and she is not used to making up her own mind about things, and she is so very wary of living less well than she does now. 1) She did not invite him. The ties between blood relations in family are an important part of the series. WHY does she not defend herself? From then on, I knew that she would develop into a character whom I could admire! It is illogical that not even Lady Mary questions how Pamuk found her. news.com.au — Australia’s leading news site>news.com.au — Australia’s leading news site, Downton's deadly sex scandal a real drama. 3) Her body language was negative. Pamuk could've been considered too much of a threat to him and I doubt Thomas would've trusted him to keep his word. He was named a "Star of Tomorrow" in 2009 by Screen International. "It said, 'We had a great tragedy this weekend. . At first glance, the period drama appeared to be stately, regal, and very proper — however, after watching just a few minutes of the very first episode, viewers quickly realized that the show's glamorous façade hid plenty of scandal, gossip, and intrigue. It did seem like rape to me at first, but upon rewatching the episode, it becomes clear that Mary is attracted to Pamuk, bored and longing for some excitement. Nationwide News Pty Limited Copyright © 2021. Julian Fellowes has done it again. Did Mary see that Thomas led Pamuk to her room? "The American series have a tremendous energy which I admire, and I hope I have emulated in Downton. Highclere Castle Floor Plan: The Real Downton Abbey, Regency Fashion: Men's Breeches, Pantaloons, and Trousers, The Servant's Quarters in 19th Century Country Houses Like Downton Abbey, Awkward! Kemal Pamuk (d. Spring, 1913) was a handsome Turkish diplomat.. Kemal Pamuk was the son of one of the Turkish Sultan's ministers. 2) How did Pamuk learn where Lady Marys room was? There are several things we could take from his statement, including the fact that men will say whatever it takes! Mary and Pamuk had regular intercourse and Pamuk dropped dead. Put a drug in his drink or something. The Downton Abbey Season 5 finale episode acted like the greatest hits of the season with drama, humor, scandal, and intrigue. Any one in society could start gossip about any young debutant . They didn't have sex in the olde days. As reported to day at Vulture.com, Downton Abbey’s Theo James–who played Mr. Pamuk–will be replacing Ryan Phillippe in Greg Berlanti’s CBS cop drama Golden Boy. Of course, in true Downton style, this is possibly the most low-key start to a romantic pairing in history, but, hey, when you’ve been waiting for four years, … Several questions were sent in by readers about Lady Mary and Pamuk. I have “modernized” some of the recipes that have been handed down in my family as well as some in these old cookbooks. The online feature ends on March 6th. Was it that she couldn’t find the way to explain Pamuk’s death? I think it’s safe to say that no one like Pamuk had ever crossed her path, so she was unprepared to cope with her feelings, including those she experienced when he appeared in her bedroom. I talked it out with my husband for quite a while after the scene, after we watched it together and he commented, “Um, wasn’t that a bit rapey?” I mean, if it was a heart condition you would think that it would have killed him well before he went into Mary's room. (some are on my blog). Mr Fellowes duly adapted the story for Downton, depicting how Pamuk goes to Mary's room at night for sex, during which he dies of a heart attack. THE author of a TV hit Downton Abbey says a shocking sex scandal that featured in the first series was based on real life. No matter what, she was ‘damaged goods’ and in her high society, this was not tolerated. The potential result of screaming was potentially worse, if you can imagine, than succumbing to his wishes and hoping it would always be kept quiet. His film credits include You Will Meet a Tall Dark Stranger (2010). "Downton Abbey" has been sold to more than 100 countries, including Australia, and scooped four wins at the 63rd Primetime Emmy Awards last month. and yes, I think that Mr. Pamuk’s death had a profound impact on her … if her first sexual experience was a rape and a death, it seems understandable if she then had to deal with a period of frigidity and avoidance of sex. Q2. "There are lots of American shows I admire," creator Julian Fellowes told the New York Times in a 2013 interview. Anna or her mother at least should have asked and later so should have Sir Richard. I digress. Reader #2 Q1. For 4 I think it has something to do with mary’s pride as well. Even today, young women when confronted with rape have many conflicting emotions and if the man is moving ahead in pursuit of his desires, the young woman does not have time to process alternatives and make a firm decision until it is too late … many young women who have been raped report feeling unable to scream. Then I was super confused by her reference feeling like Tess of the d’Urbervilles in Season 2 as Tess was raped and eventually kills her attacker. In this case it is Matthew and she still can’t admit it to herself that she is giving in to this man and to her family’s wishes. Then she passed. She could have screamed hoping someone would hear or that he would run away. That no one figured out and blamed Thomas is more of a mystery to me than how Pamuk could take pleasure without breaking Mary’s hymen. If you’d like the hear one of her talks, here’s a 15-minute discussion on The Invisible Presence. I have already marked the recipes I intend to try. With "Downton Abbey" coming to an end on Sunday after six extremely entertaining, occasionally absurd and frequently very moving seasons, we decided to take a … (Yes, we are fallible. 2) Why was Mary so hesitant to accept Matthew even prior to the news of her Mother’s pregnancy if she loved him? A scene from Downton Abbey (taken from a clip on YouTube)Source:news.com.au. We choose clothes and pay calls and work for charity and do the season, but really we’re stuck in a waiting room until we marry.” has been told what to do with her life since she was a little girl. This has always been a great comfort to our family and me. It was called rumpy bumpy or a bit of hows your father. oof, I totally respectfully disagree about it not being rape. They woke everyone in the passageway, who carried the corpse the entire length of the house to his bed. Others have addressed why she hasn’t defended herself, so I will just add that perhaps she was actually more focused on having lost Pamuk than on her reputation. I would love to see what would have happened had Thomas had a sense of humor and led Pamuk to, oh say Cora’s room? . Write us at. ... but considering the positions they were in when Mr. Pamuk died, I did not think he died following Lady Mary’s having performed fellatio on him. 2) It was clearly shown that Mr. Pamuk was led to Lady Mary’s chamber by Thomas the footman late at night. Mr Fellowes added: "Our pal [had] never heard of this story, and he looked in his great-grandfather's diary. There were many ways to pleasure himself and Mary and keep her hymen intact without resorting to THAT. Theo James was born on December 16, 1984 in Oxford, Oxfordshire, England, United Kingdom as Theodore Peter James Kinnaird Taptiklis. Because if not she can just assume that he might have followed her, asked any other servant, or found another way. We laugh, but young girls have these fears. I was surprised by her response as the events leading up to it would suggest otherwise. @Andie Paysinger really? Good news, Mr. Pamuk Fans: Theo James comes to America. Downton Abbey’s Laura Carmichael on Edith’s Missing Baby Daddy, ... Mary slept with Mr. Pamuk, who died in her bed, and Sybil married the chauffeur. First of all, no matter what her reasons, in sex, no means no. Sarah H- Mary did agree. I am stilll mad Edith wrote Pamuks dad. She can’t bear the idea of marrying him without him knowing about Pamuk. For years, we welcomed creator Julian Fellowes’s Downton Abbey into our homes every Sunday night—along with the beloved characters played by Michelle Dockery, Maggie Smith, Hugh Bonneville, Joanne Froggatt, and the rest of the cast.Over the course of six seasons, we were privy to well-mannered bickerments and soapy melodrama elevated by 20th-century British aristocracy and … ” there are angels all around my bed”. And there are some poisons … Pamuk said he would expose her if she didn’t let him have his way with her, and she never tells anyone that. via the Amazon Vine Program Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this blog’s author and/or owners is strictly prohibited. as well. Scandal: Diplomat Kemal Pamuk, (played by Theo James) lies dead in Lady Mary's bed. Ahead of the film adaptation, we're taking a look back at the most scandalous moments on Downton Abbey, from the death of Mr. Pamuk to Violet's Russian romance. In spite of her selfishness and pride, and desire to always be in control of any relationship, she did value and respect Matthew enough to know that she would have to come clean with him about her night with Pamuk,, to allow him to withdraw his offer of marriage, if he chose. Mary was young, innocent, bored to death and found this exciting, exotic, attractive man who desired her. Noboday asks her what happened in the bed…I guess they just assume there was intercourse…is that what we are to assume? They are in a state of extreme shock. James was cast in Stranger while still in his final year at drama school. Q2. The author of Black London has recorded 12 episodes on the topic for BBC 4 radio. I think it’s assumed that Lady Mary invited Pamuk to her room though she never questioned how he found her. They are: Click on their names to enter their own blogs. I think he said “You can still be a virgin for your husband” and meant with a little imagination. Robert and … Thomas tells O’Brien at the end of the episode…why does she never use that against him when she begins to dislike him? And yes; if she had told him then Matthew would probably have acted very differently and it would not have had a good outcome, because Matthew was a bit of a prick, yes. Julian Fellowes, the man behind the Emmy Award-winning Downton Abbey, told The Times Cheltenham Literature Festival in the UK: "I did enjoy the death of Mr Pamuk, because it was true.". Don’t forget that during this period and the Victorian period, there was A LOT of illicit sex going on such as affairs, etc. furthermore, Kathryn Ryder was only giving her own opinion and sharing her theories, which is the point of this whole thing anyway. No one asks her and that’s strange. So we might say we would fight our attacker off, but until we are in such a situation, we really do not know how we would respond. Sick of Mary constantly belittling her, Edith wrote to the Turkish embassy and let them know the truth of Pamuk… Click on image. Usually, before the marriage, the mother would inform the bride about her duties/chores, and generally it was the husband’s duty to ‘teach’ his wife what was expected of her. In addition, we thank the many experts and authors who frequently contribute their posts and opinions, and who continue to do so freely or at our request. At that time, inappropriate sexual relations were almost always blamed on the woman, and had hugely dire results for their lives/possibilities (and none or relatively little for those of men). She had enjoyed flirtations but Matthew really was her first true love. Evelyn Napier is given the job to look after Kemal until the start of the conference, as Turkey's support is deemed vital. Our team makes no profit off this blog. Mary’s journey was and is the best part of Downton for me, and the Pamuk episode was a key part of that story. We'll own up to our mistakes and will make the corrections with a polite smile on our faces.) Out of respect to their friend, Mr Fellowes and his wife vowed to never reveal the house or the diplomat and women involved.
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